In this episode of AyahuascaPodcast.com host Sam Believ has a conversation with Kyle Buller. Kyle is Cofounder and co-host of psychedelics today podcast.
We touch upon subjects of Breathwork, how Breathwork can help navigate the psychedelic experience. Kyle tells us about his near death experience and how it was a trigger for the start of his spiritual journey. We talk about trauma release and more.
Find more about Kyle Buller at http://www.settingsunwelness.com
Here is Kyle’s Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/settingsunwellness?igsh=MTAzODhmNzduYXFrdg==
Transcript
Sam Believ (00:01.949)
to ayahuascapodcast .com as always with you the hosts and belief. Our guest today is Kyle Buller. Kyle is co -founder and co -host of Psychedelic Today podcast. He’s a health counselor. He has BA in transpersonal psychiatry, MS in clinical mental health counseling and he’s…
his spiritual experience, his spiritual journey started with the near -death experience when he was 16, which we’ll talk about shortly. Kyle, welcome to the podcast.
Kyle Buller (00:38.122)
Thanks for having me here, Sam. Really excited.
Sam Believ (00:41.197)
Kyle, yeah, as I mentioned, I listened to many episodes with you and really loved, I mean, not to say that I enjoyed hearing about your near -death experience, but it was very interesting because I’ve heard it before from other people, so can you tell us a little bit about that experience and specifically, you know, the mystical part of it?
Kyle Buller (01:08.17)
Yeah, yeah, thanks for asking. I’ll try to keep it a little short if you want to drop in like a longer episode where I can go into like more details in your show notes, we can do that. But when I was 16, I went out snowboarding and I got in a really bad accident. I was night skiing out in Pennsylvania and I was going around this turn and the way the light was hitting the shadows and I just couldn’t see. Like I was going around really fast around this turn and there was this amount of snow just in this blind spot.
And I saw this mound and thinking, oh man, if I hit this, I’m going to die. So I tried stopping, I tried turning. It was like everything went slow mo. It was like this mound just kind of sucked me in. And then I flew through the air about 30 feet. And as my snowboard hit, heard a loud pop, I thought I snapped a rib. And I immediately started gasping for air, felt like I couldn’t breathe, instant pain. So thankfully, I…
I got down to first aid. I was laying on the mountain for about like 45 minutes or so, maybe a little bit longer waiting for first aid to come. So yeah, thankfully they got me down to first aid. They were checking all my vitals and they kept asking me questions like, are you usually this pale? Do you usually have a low pulse? And I was like, I don’t know. I don’t pay attention to this stuff as being a 16 year old. So they were checking me out and…
They said, you know, your ribs are fine. You know, there’s no sign of bruising. Nothing seems broken. We think you have internal injuries. And at that point, I just thought, oh shit, I’m gonna die tonight. And thankfully they got a helicopter and medevacked me out. And I guess as they got me out, they looked at my dad and they said, your son’s in his golden hour and he may not make it. And so I think that was like, that really scared him.
And yeah, thankfully they got the medevac, they flew me out. And by the time I got to the ER, so like when I was in the first aid station, I was really thinking about dying. Never really grew up very religious or anything like that, but I started praying and I remember going, God, I’m 16, I’m too young, I don’t wanna die, please, please save me. And then by the time I got to the hospital and the ER, I didn’t really think about dying. It felt like…
Sam Believ (03:14.429)
you
Kyle Buller (03:30.41)
I, my consciousness started to kind of start to expand outside my body a bit. It was really interesting. My uncle was a first responder for that township. And he was standing beside me. And I remember having this like really interesting thought going, you know, this person I consider blood, you know, he’s family, but where I’m about to go, I can’t take anybody with me. This is my own journey. And in the meantime, I’m hearing the doctors and nurses, you know, they’re really anxious.
Sam Believ (03:43.037)
you
Kyle Buller (03:58.122)
there, I could hear the one nurse say like, I can’t get a pulse on him, his veins in his upper body are collapsing. And they’re just jabbing me with IVs, trying to tap a vein. And yeah, so they they, they, they realized that the seriousness of the situation, they did a sonogram on me to figure out what was going on. And as they were doing that, they said, you know, you have lots of blood in your abdomen. This is the reason why you feel really sick, you have massive internal bleeding, we need to figure out where this is coming from.
So they got me to the CAT scan machine to try to do some more scanning and figure out what was going on. And while I was in the CAT scan machine, the doctors kept telling me not to fall asleep. I was so cold at this point. I felt like I was submerged in a tub of ice water. I was so tired and I was just sitting there just drifting off. And I could hear the doctor say, don’t fall asleep, Kyle, stay with us, stay with us. And it felt like I was in my body. It felt like I was on the other side of the room with the doctors.
And then as I really started to drift off, I heard this voice and I don’t really never know how to describe it or how I remember it. It wasn’t like an external voice of something like, you know, out there, I could hear it, you know, auditorily. And it felt more of like this internal voice, but something came over me and said, you’re going home. You’re going back to the stars where we all come from and this physical life is going to cease to exist and you’ll continue on. But…
the more that you struggle with this experience, the harder the transition will be. So the more that you can relax into this experience, the easier the transition will be. And I just remember kind of being blissed out and going, I’m going home, I’m going home. This is what we all wait for. I mean, I wasn’t saying that like verbally out loud, but it was more of this like internal kind of bliss that started to overcome. And…
The doctors took me out and they said I ruptured my spleen and they needed to do surgery immediately. And I woke up in the ICU and thinking like, what the hell just happened? And I was pretty cognizant of like, what was going on. I remember what day it was. I remember like what time everything started to happen. But
Kyle Buller (06:16.778)
Yeah, that’s the gist of it. I got in this really bad snowboarding accident and almost died from blood loss internally.
Sam Believ (06:27.069)
Well, first of all, Kyle, I’m happy you didn’t die. And it’s great to have you alive and have you here in the podcast instead. And I know you’re doing a lot of great work. So glad you didn’t die. The voice that you’re describing and you know, the way the message came through, it kind of reminds me when me, myself, or other people tried to explain how I was to communicate with them. It’s kind of like, was it the voice? Was it the message? But it’s like, it’s pretty clear what it comes to. But I’m very curious to know like that moment when you said this, like,
Kyle Buller (06:30.858)
Me too. Thank you.
Sam Believ (06:56.975)
we’re going back to the stars. Is there anything else? Did you see anything or feel anything? Was it now after your psychedelic experience and you said that when you started working with psychedelics you relived that experience. So what are the parallels in between that state of dying and the psychedelic experiences?
Kyle Buller (07:20.65)
So the one thing I described as I didn’t have, I guess that traditional near death experience that people sometimes talk about that they go down a tunnel of light, they might meet some of their ancestors or angels or spirits of some sort. The way I sometimes describe it is it did feel like there’s like this orb of light around me. And it felt like maybe it was kind of like hovering over me in a sense. And, you know, I,
Sam Believ (07:41.679)
you
Kyle Buller (07:49.994)
I don’t know if that was more of a feeling. I don’t think I saw an orb of light, but it just felt like there was something there with me. I mean, this stuff is so hard to put into words and it has been quite a while over, yeah, I guess 20 years was my anniversary back in New Year’s of this year. But yeah, I described it as like, it felt like this orb of light, something was there with me. And then there was this thing where I was in my body, but I was also out of my body. And I felt like I was like everywhere at once.
Sam Believ (08:14.581)
you
Kyle Buller (08:19.198)
And yeah, it’s a really interesting comparison when we think about psychedelics and people say, you know, Madre spoke to me or Ayahuasca gave me this message or the mushrooms spoke to me. Like, where is that voice coming from? And how do we make sense of it? Sometimes you do have that visual representation of it. Like maybe with somebody with Ayahuasca, they’re interacting with the serpent, right? Or some other sort of entity that feels like the spirit of Ayahuasca or the mushrooms.
Um, and so there is something I think in our culture where seeing is believing, um, and not having maybe that visual representation creates a little bit of confusion of like, well, what was that? Was that me? Was that something else outside of me that was communicating? Um, right. Because the way we process information as humans, it’s either visual or really auditory. Um, you know, we do process information semantically and intuitively, but I think in our culture, logic has taken over and said, you know, you can’t always believe in.
right? And I think it causes a little bit of confusion of then, how do we describe these experiences, if we don’t have anything concrete to really, you know, go off of. So the first time I did psilocybin, I think I was like 19. And I had this experience, it was only off of two grams. So, you know, relatively low dose for most people are medium dose, like shouldn’t say low dose, but yeah, medium dose.
And I was out in the woods and kind of hiking around with a friend. And I felt this cold come over me. And I said, Oh, shit, like, I feel like I’m dying. Something, something’s going on. I remember, I looked at this rock in this middle of the trail. And I said, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go die on this rock. And this whole experience started to take off where I left my body.
I found myself in what I considered some sort of death Bardo. I didn’t know my name. I didn’t know anything about myself. I didn’t know what year it was. I didn’t know what I did for work. I was, there was all these little things I was trying to grab onto of like, who’s Kyle? How do I make sense of who I am? And I couldn’t make sense of it anything. I had no idea who I was in that space. And I came in contact with these little entities and,
Kyle Buller (10:43.188)
I found out later, like I heard Terrence McKenna, maybe like, I don’t know, six months or something later, talk about these self -transforming machine elves. And I said, oh man, other people have seen these things. And I’ve seen like, you know, depictions of people drawing them or artwork. And you know, it’s pretty similar about what I saw. And so I was back in this state and you know, there was a sense of familiarity. And I remember asking, or saying to myself, I feel like I’ve been here before.
these things looked at me said thousands of times and I said sorry I kind of scratched my head in a sense and said shit if I’ve been here thousands of times like this must be some sort of death bardo and you know maybe this is where we go when we die and so I think I asked that question I said is this a death bardo is this where we go when we die and they said more or less so and I said okay this is interesting I’ve been here thousands of times this might be some sort of death bardo maybe
this is the place where I went when I died or was coming close to death. And they said, yeah, more or less so. And I said, okay, I’m trying to do like reasoning in my head in this trip. And I asked the next question, well, you know, if this is the place where I went, like, where did all this information come from after my near death experience? Because I felt like I talked to somebody or something after that near death experience. And I…
didn’t have a way to rationalize it or make sense of it. And so I asked that question. And of course I got answered with the same answer, more or less so. So it was like the archetypal trickster, not giving you a straight answer. But there was something just really interesting about that. And it helped to relieve, I think, some of my anxiety and helped to provide some context. Whether or not this was all real or it’s all imagination, we can speculate on.
Sam Believ (12:36.469)
you
Kyle Buller (12:39.754)
States.
it had a big impact on me that it provided some context. Cause that was the thing that like, I guess really bothered me after I did have that near death experience of like, I don’t remember anything. Like I rem, there’s new information, the way that I describe it, it’s like, I woke up in the ICU with a new, a new map of my chest. And this was like the new operating system of the world in which I was going to live in. And I just kept thinking like, where the hell did that map come from? Like, where did this information come from?
So being able to go back into this state with the psychedelic, it reminded me so much of like that dying experience. And that just got me intellectually curious and fascinated of going, what’s going on here? How could I ingest something that grows from the earth that could replicate or feel like death all over again? And so ironically, I ended up picking up Dr. Rick Shrasman’s book, DMT, The Spirit Molecule. It had nothing to do,
with psychedelics or the word DMT. I don’t think I really knew what DMT was back then. Cause I went into this all pretty naive, but it was in the subtitle research into near death experiences. I forget what the full subtitle is, but it was that word near death experience. I said, yeah, let me pick this up. And so, you know, some of Strassman’s hypothesis is DMT is this molecule that’s released when we’re die, when we were born during near death experiences.
And once I started thinking about that, I was thinking, you know, this is interesting that psilocybin is essentially kind of like an orally active dose of DMT, right? It’s the structurally, it has a DMT structure, has this extra group of phosphates that helps it to break down through the liver and pass through the blood brain barrier. And I kept thinking, you know, if I could have an experience with DMT and Rick Strassman’s hypothesizing that DMT is this spirit molecule, then
Kyle Buller (14:40.424)
And it’s relating so much to my near death experience. Like there’s something fascinating here. And like, how do I make sense of this? So that just brought me more on an intellectual journey of curiosity of, you know, trying to ask more questions. I don’t think I’ve had any sort of answers as I started to get into the psychedelic world. And I’m sure maybe you relate that sometimes gets more complex as you go in.
Sam Believ (15:03.421)
Yeah, it gets way more confusing before you get some clarity and a lot of clarity that you get you can’t explain in words you just get the feeling. What it feels like it’s almost you’re trying to describe your near -death experience as if you needed some integration afterwards. It’s kind of like it was almost like a psychedelic experience and what the feeling you had is like you were kind of confused and that’s kind of where the integration could come in handy but I guess there was no such concept.
Kyle Buller (15:06.602)
Yeah… No…
Kyle Buller (15:19.05)
Totally.
Sam Believ (15:32.477)
interesting thing about what you’re saying about like there was no visions and it’s kind of in our society as you say now we’re so visually focused like no visions nothing happened and it happens a lot of time here at the retreat a lot of people come and they expect specifically visions and ayahuasca a lot of times can perform extremely deep work on you without you ever experiencing visions and we get people then going home thinking they have not connected
Kyle Buller (15:32.572)
No.
Kyle Buller (15:48.714)
Mm -hmm.
Sam Believ (15:58.013)
to the medicine and haven’t had the experience and you know their depression is completely gone so obviously the immense amount of work has been done but because they have felt no visions they might feel feel frustrated another thing I made a note here what you’re describing I’ve heard this said before is the most familiar unfamiliar feeling you’ll ever experience that that sort of space and I think I know what you’re talking about I’ve been there on different medicines and
Kyle Buller (16:19.336)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (16:26.077)
I don’t know about the self -transforming elves, but I’ve seen like small entities and when I got there they were like touching me with their fingers or whatever it was. It was kind of funny. Yeah, it’s like this this world of psychedelics or mystical world where you go you can go there naturally on psychedelics through breath work, which we’ll talk about later as well. But it’s like it feels so complex. It almost feels more complicated than this reality in a way.
Kyle Buller (16:34.466)
Yeah, yeah.
Kyle Buller (16:53.866)
Well, and that’s, it’s like interesting. You say that it’s like maybe more complicated than this reality or it feels like unfamiliar, but familiar. And another thing I’ve heard people say, and I know this to be true for myself, it’s more real than real, right? And so it’s like, you get these like weird kind of like paradoxes with, with the psychedelic space. Oh, I felt more real than real or like.
I feel like I’ve been here before and it feels so familiar, but also really unfamiliar at the same time. Like, what is this? And it does, it feels like we’re in this weird paradox when it comes to that, but sometimes it does. It feels sometimes more real than this actual reality. But yeah, what does that even mean at times?
Sam Believ (17:37.981)
Yeah, we can connect that back to your near -death experience, right? And you were saying you had that feeling where you’re going back home, you’re going back to the stars, whatever. And it kind of comes up a lot and also in some ayahuasca journeys. And I had more than 10 people from different parts of the world that haven’t read the same books describe that.
Kyle Buller (17:52.026)
Thank you.
Sam Believ (18:03.517)
Phenomenon to me which kind of made me form a new worldview and maybe you can sort of comment on it because I believe you must know a lot about it but the the premise is that we are souls that are living this life to experience this feeling or to learn something or to feel something or kind of like Unlimited consciousness, which is God breaking itself up into small pieces to sort of like
interact with itself to kind of entertain itself so and if you would look at it from the point of view of what you experience and going back and then of course it being more real than this real then that makes me very confused what do you think about that?
Kyle Buller (18:34.09)
Yeah.
Kyle Buller (18:46.838)
Yeah, I have heard like theories like that. And after my near death experience, I did have a lot of thoughts about that of like, you know, we are here for a reason. Cause if we were just untethered consciousness, I mean, we wouldn’t be able to experience any of this stuff. And I think sometimes part of the human experience is to be able to feel, to be able to be here, to be able to experience this because…
Sam Believ (19:12.527)
you
Kyle Buller (19:15.018)
Yeah, if we were just pure consciousness, you know, if we want to use that term God or the universe, right, sometimes people say it’s like we are the universe experiencing itself. It’s giving it like almost physical form to have experience. And that more real than real thing, it makes me think when we go into these states, we’re like kind of tapping back into and I guess we’ll just use that that term source energy, right? It’s like we’re tapping back into
maybe where we came from or what we essentially are. When I was dying, it was this voice saying, this physical life’s gonna cease to exist, but you’ll continue on. And I don’t know what that really means. Is Kyle, the soul or the spirit of Kyle gonna continue on? And am I gonna remember my life? Or is it that this energy that we all contain,
Sometimes I like to use the word psyche from from James Hillman. He talks about psyche being soul when we talk about the Greek translation of psyche. But is this life energy that flows through us, right? And is it that energy that’s going to go onward? And does it go back into the source? And it’s not tied to say ego or the individual. And that I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s like interesting to think about. But I think when we go into those realms and it feels
Sam Believ (20:27.869)
you
Kyle Buller (20:44.074)
more real than real life. It feels like we are tapping back into something so familiar that like it gets us in touch with maybe who we are in our true essence. And you know, this whole imbited experience is just, you know, one part of it. But I don’t know, it’s interesting to kind of speculate and think about, you know, and it’s so hard to put into words of like, yeah, what is that experience? Like, you know, how do I make sense of this?
Sam Believ (21:11.037)
Yeah. Well, I can definitely say that my fear of death after starting to work with psychedelics greatly diminished. Not that I would like to die. I would still do my best not to, but it’s kind of like if I would, I’m thinking, you know, if I.
Kyle Buller (21:18.466)
No.
Sam Believ (21:29.789)
back to those experiences and kind of like because now after seeing it for so many times and I’m telling you it’s people that never met each other they never read the same
Kyle Buller (21:37.898)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (21:39.133)
describe the same thing it kind of makes me form that worldview that yeah we’re going back somewhere and it’s kind of very comforting and even if it’s not true I think it’s a it’s good to have that worldview like what’s what’s the benefit of living your life being afraid all the time so I guess it’s it’s it’s beneficial from that point of view you know the the the ancient Greeks said if you die before you die you don’t
Kyle Buller (22:03.498)
Right.
Sam Believ (22:05.053)
this using psychedelics as this rehearsal, which kind of, you know, and you’re a great case study for this because you, you can attest that it felt very similar. But speaking about, you know, alter mind states, I know you’re a big fan of breath work and there’s some, some places you can go to on breath work alone. Can you talk a little bit about that? You know, where you started, how you started, why you went into that?
modality specifically. I know you wrote that these
Kyle Buller (22:35.038)
Yeah, yeah, I did. So I originally came across it. So I ended up doing an undergrad in transpersonal psychology at a little school in Vermont called Burlington College. Unfortunately, the school shut down in 2016. But I went there because I had this near death experience, some of these really potent psychedelic experiences. And I was really trying to like figure out what the hell was going on in my life. I was in what we would call like a spiritual emergence.
you know, this kind of psycho spiritual crisis. And I came across the work of Dr. Stanislav Grof. And I started reading his books, I think around 20 and 21. And I said, man, I, this is what I want to do with my life. You know, I want to like, you know, just dedicate my time to, to explore this type of stuff. And so I started researching transpersonal psychology and found this little school. And it was during my second semester there.
that they were offering a one credit weekend workshop in holotropic breathwork. And so holotropic breathwork is a technique that was developed by Stan and Christina Groff at Esalen. And for those that don’t know who Stan Groff is, he’s a Czechoslovakian American psychiatrist who’s a pioneer in LSD research. I think he’s had over 4 ,500 sessions with clients and pretty much wrote the manual book called LSD Psychotherapy and numerous other books.
And when he came over to America, and the war on drugs was happening, and all the research shut down, he ended up finding himself at Esalen, and they ended up developing this breathing technique, him and Christina, which really could help to foster these non ordinary states are what Stan likes to call these holotropic states of consciousness. And so
by just, well, no, I shouldn’t say by just. The Holotropic Breathwork framework is a little bit more holistic than I think just the breathwork. There’s five different components of it. And so that’s evocative music, focused body work, intensified breathing, expressive art and group process. And so by breathing, we can really induce these non -ordinary or holotropic states. And so I ended up,
Kyle Buller (24:52.106)
participating in all these holotropic breathwork sessions during my undergrad, studying with some teachers, Lenny Elizabeth Gibson. And they have kind of branched off from the holotropic breathwork world and have created their own training program. And we call it Dream Shadow transpersonal breathwork. So I’m trained in transpersonal breathwork. But, you know, there’s a lot of kind of crossover between the two techniques. And,
Yeah, so it’s a really powerful technique and modality. And I was pretty skeptical of it when I first came across it. I was like, I don’t think breathing is going to be like, you know, this, this intense. And I was completely wrong. I was completely blown away by the power of it. And that first breath work session continues to live in my body and in my psyche. And it feels like it’s actually been.
the one kind of driving force in a lot of my work in a sense. So I find it to be really interesting. You know, the near death thing and the psychedelics were really profound, but it’s also this breathwork experience that I think has stuck with me the most and has gotten me kind of on my path in a sense.
Sam Believ (26:08.925)
So yeah, for those who don’t know who Stanislav Graf is, he coined that quote, let me read it, the psychedelics are to the study of the mind, what the microscope is to biology and the telescope is to astronomy, which I very much agree to. And you know, it’s kind of like, he’s one of those superstars, one of the OGs of the psychedelic renaissance.
Kyle Buller (26:26.068)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (26:35.237)
the LSD types. You know, can you talk a little bit about, you say that there are states, the holotropic states, but can you maybe try and compare them to psychedelic states or what you have experienced in your near -death experience?
Kyle Buller (26:53.514)
So like comparing like the breath work to psychedelics and near death. So I’ll probably take a little bit of a, instead of trying to compare it, like taking this philosophical approach that this is all inside of you and doesn’t matter whether or not we’re using a psychedelic or a near death experience or whatnot. I think.
Sam Believ (26:56.989)
Yeah.
Kyle Buller (27:18.794)
essentially, we do get in touch with this core experience of who we are. And again, I’ll just kind of like use this word psyche. It’s like, these are all different vehicles and modalities to get in touch with psyche, or the universe in a way. And obviously, they have different flavors, right? So like, you know, if you drink ayahuasca, you might have the purgative aspect, there is a lot of folks that talk about the spirit of ayahuasca, and that comes into play.
Obviously you probably get a little bit of the visual sometimes, you don’t, right? You mentioned that people don’t always get visuals. And so there’s like this different kind of flavor. When I started to do breath work, my first breath work experience was a reliving of all these different experiences. And I found myself back in that death Bardo state with those entities all over again. And that’s what kind of got me so interested of going like, how the hell could I get back there by just breathing?
So we take this, I think, philosophical approach that all experience is inside of you and doesn’t always matter which tool you do it. And obviously, yeah, there’s gonna be different flavors because there’s the psychopharmacinetics of the drug and the substances that are having effects on your receptor sites where breathing might not be having that effect. But there is the possibility to get to that core experience.
And again, I’m just going to use the word psyche. I think that’s like the best thing. It’s like, there are different modalities to get in touch with psyche. And when you get there, you realize it’s all there. Like I’ve had full blown kind of psychedelic like experiences with breathwork. And it kind of got me thinking like, this is giving me an experience of myself. And I find that to just be like a really interesting thing. And
If you have a follow up, I am going to look for a quote and Stan really kind of emphasizes this a little bit when he talks about like his LSD D work. And so, well, I’ll read a few quotes. I just pulled this one up from, so Brigida Groff, this was, oh, okay, let me go back. So Stan wrote, he said, I wrote the best way of understanding LSD is to see it as an unspecific amplifier of psychological processes.
Kyle Buller (29:42.538)
If I had any remaining doubts about this point of view, they have all but been dispelled by our observations from Holotropic Breathwork. And I find that to be an interesting quote, because it’s really showing the power of breathwork by saying, I saw LSD as this unspecific amplifier, and we’re starting to see that in breathwork too, right? People are having this amplification of psyche through by breathing. And it…
without using a substance. And his current wife Brigitte Groff, she had this quote in a podcast that we did and she said, you know, in a way when you do psychedelics, there’s always that temptation to attribute the experiences to the substance. But when you do breath work, there’s not much to attribute. I mean, this is you, definitely. This is your psyche with a little breathing. So to find that people had access to psyche,
was again validating that it’s the psyche and not the substance. And, you know, it’s just like a pretty interesting theoretical framework to kind of start with that this is an experience of you. And I think that’s what the near death experience taught me too, was that all this is here in the present moment. And how do we get in touch with it?
yes, you know, we can use substances and stuff like that to amplify that because we’re so disconnected from it. But, you know, it is here in the present moment. And I’m just going to read one more quote here by Grof that’s like kind of, I guess, like touching on this this philosophy as well. So he says, so
give the same substance in the same dosage under the same circumstances, under the same lousy set and setting, which we had. Each of those people would have had different experiences to the point some of them called it the moments that they get in between tests. It was like a self analysis, like a drug assisted psychotherapy. Others were just unpleasant physical symptoms. Some of them had paranoid episodes or became hypomanic. And for some of them,
Kyle Buller (31:57.866)
it was even under those circumstances that they got glimpses of a static states that were very mystical. And at the same intra individual variability, if we took the same substance at different times, this phenomenology was completely different. At that point, I realized this was not psychopharmacology. We were not doing pharmacology because if you do pharmacology, you have some idea of what you’re getting. If you give people,
Apomorphine, you expect a lot of them will be vomiting. If you give them a hypnotic, you expect them to sleep. Whereas here, we had no idea what would happen. So I realized we were doing something much more interesting. We had a catalyst that made it possible to explore the depth of the human psyche. And I realized that people were not having quote unquote LSD experiences. They’re having experiences of themselves. I think that’s just like an important quote.
to really emphasize that this is you, this is your experience. And we have different modalities to get there. And if we look cross culturally, maybe from like an anthropological point of view, rites of passages, you know, people had really intense techniques to work with psyche, you know, whether that was through bloodletting, sensory isolation by isolating in a cave, extreme physical exhaustion, getting to these brinks of death.
by these really intense rites of passages and talking about these mystical experiences without a substance. And so I always like to really emphasize that there is, you know, other ways of getting there. And obviously they’re going to be a little different at times.
Sam Believ (33:36.743)
They also did it by lack of sleep or too much heat. We can get there in many ways. It’s very helpful to also remember that in the ceremony because it’s easy to be frightened by experience.
Kyle Buller (33:41.16)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Sam Believ (33:54.045)
when you see it’s something external coming to you, but when you understand that it’s your experience and at the end of the day it happens in your head and at the end of the day you’re the boss, it kind of helps to reframe it. So it’s very interesting. Yeah, it’s like, it’s almost as if we have, there’s a reality and we see a very narrow part of it and the rest of it exists. We just don’t have access to it because we have like,
Kyle Buller (34:08.232)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (34:19.805)
Blindfolds and psychoducts are kind of like those glasses that allow us to access this but this this is in us and we Are able to access it all the time. We just don’t know how but in a way Then it would be not a you know human existence. It would be something else and maybe maybe we’ll move through that broadband Across you know lives of our of our souls, but once again, we have no answers and what we can focus on is this bodily experience so
Kyle Buller (34:38.986)
Mm -hmm.
Kyle Buller (34:48.458)
Right. And I mean, I think there is something to like plant medicines like ayahuasca where there is a relationship between the plants, right? It’s like they are kind of communicating with us at times. And so I think even Stan took this little bit of a different approach and kind of backtracked on that idea that psychedelics are these non -specific amplifiers, but how do you take into consideration, you know, if Madre shows up, right? How do we understand that? Is that you or are we actually having a relationship with the plant?
Sam Believ (34:48.765)
Um,
Sam Believ (34:58.799)
you
Kyle Buller (35:18.204)
And I think there is something interesting there to explore. And I don’t know, curious to hear maybe some of your thoughts since like you live this every day.
Sam Believ (35:26.269)
I think the difference is that the LSD is a synthesized psychedelic, so it kind of lacks some of that. You know, it’s not Kikion, it’s not the traditional one, maybe it lacks the spirit, because in one of the previous episodes I interviewed Rachel Harris, and she talked about this time when they tried to do studies on ayahuasca and they freeze dried it to make sure the samples are all the same.
Kyle Buller (35:34.376)
Mm -hmm.
Sam Believ (35:51.485)
And the shaman, when he experienced that ayahuasca, he said that it likes the spirit. So he disagreed to continue in the study. So maybe there are certain preparations that have the spirit preserved and the others that don’t. That’s a thought that came to me. But then in the end of the day, maybe you can have your own experience where it’s just amplified, as you say, or maybe you can also have your own experience, plus there’s plant spirit, plus there’s…
other spirits because you know in this in this band you know if let’s say there’s this broadband of different levels of matter and experiences we’re not probably alone there and you know you talk about entities and there’s there’s other they have different names but yeah I the more I talk about it the more I get this strange feeling like I almost start to trip myself so let’s let’s change the topic.
Kyle Buller (36:23.402)
Mm -hmm.
Kyle Buller (36:49.098)
Yeah, yeah.
Sam Believ (36:52.189)
Speaking about breath work, maybe can you give us a short preview, like some five to 10 minute maybe technique that people can practice, not to send them to see entities, but maybe, whatever, wake up or relax or what do you got for us? I know you’re a master in breath work.
Kyle Buller (36:52.618)
fine.
Kyle Buller (37:13.674)
Yeah, so there’s lots of different ways to do it. And obviously the technique that I’m trained in is a much more in -depth kind of practice. Our sessions last for over three hours and it’s usually like a whole weekend type of thing. But I think it might be interesting if you’re not driving, if you’re just hanging out on your couch, you’re in a comfortable place. We can do a little kind of somatic meditation with breathing to also kind of…
Yeah, tap in to see how our breath like really impacts us. Yeah, yeah. So I just invite you and you know, you’re listening if you’re in a safe place to do so. If you want to close your eyes, you can close your eyes or keep your eyes open.
Sam Believ (37:46.885)
Beautiful, I’m excited.
Kyle Buller (38:02.154)
And just kind of start noticing how you’re breathing. What’s the cadence like?
Are you breathing shallow in your chest? Are you taking full deep breaths in your belly?
Kyle Buller (38:26.922)
So just kind of taking a moment to really tune in. How are you breathing right now?
Kyle Buller (38:40.586)
I’m just going to invite you to really start to turn your attention inward.
Kyle Buller (38:50.668)
I’m inviting you to take three deep breaths. So I’ll coach you through that. So when you feel ready, a nice big deep inhale through your nose.
I’m bringing the breath way down into your belly and holding it for as long as you want, exhaling through your mouth.
long slow deep exhale and then taking a moment to pause just notice the stillness between the inhale and the exhale.
feel ready another big deep inhale through your nose.
Bring it way down to your belly holding. And then when you feel ready, big exhale through your mouth.
Kyle Buller (39:45.898)
And again, just taking a moment to pause. Just noticing stillness between the exhale and inhale.
Kyle Buller (39:57.458)
noticing how your body might be responding.
And then when you feel ready, another big deep inhale.
Kyle Buller (40:08.336)
holding, exhaling through your mouth. And if you want to make a sigh or sound, you can do that.
Kyle Buller (40:21.994)
And you can return to your normal breath.
Kyle Buller (40:29.002)
as you turn inward, just notice, have things shifted for you.
Are you feeling maybe different feelings or sensations in the body?
Kyle Buller (40:53.29)
Just taking a moment to observe and be with whatever’s showing up.
Kyle Buller (41:08.04)
Next, I invite you to tune into the body a little bit more and see if you can notice a part of your body that’s calling your attention.
Kyle Buller (41:22.666)
It could be a tightness, it could be a feeling of relaxation, a hot or cold feeling. Maybe there’s an area that feels tingly.
Kyle Buller (41:48.682)
So just taking a moment to locate that in your body.
Kyle Buller (41:56.456)
Sometimes it’s in multiple places and that’s fine too. Just finding a focal point.
Kyle Buller (42:15.626)
just inviting you to place your hand over that feeling just to kind of you know focal focus on
Kyle Buller (42:27.498)
Maybe feeling the heat from your hand or just feeling the contact of your hand in that place.
Kyle Buller (42:43.178)
Just noticing if anything is shifted for you as you place your hand.
Kyle Buller (42:53.898)
Taking a moment to ask, why is this part of your body calling to you?
And what do you think it needs?
Kyle Buller (43:09.61)
And so we can work with this technique of amplification by using a deeper and faster breath. And so we’re just gonna experiment to kind of get you to play around with how different styles of breathing can really kind of impact us. So again, just kind of focusing on that area, your hand place there and inviting you to take some deeper and fuller.
breaths. And so that could look like through the nose out through the mouth in through the mouth out through the mouth. Taking a more kind of non directive approach with this and really kind of feeling into your body and feeling into your breath, what does it need? But this goal is to make it a little bit deeper and faster. So it could look sound or look like this if you’re on video.
Kyle Buller (44:23.594)
And you might notice yourself get a little dizzy, a little lightheaded. That’s fine. That’s totally normal. If it’s feeling a little too overwhelming, you can slow your breath down. What does it feel like to really amplify the breath in that part of your body? And sometimes it can be nice to focus on the emotion that’s stored there. So what does it feel like, say, for feeling like a little bit of anxiety and that’s
Sam Believ (44:34.959)
you
Kyle Buller (44:50.826)
I have my hand on my stomach in the stomach area. When does it feel like to really breathe into that?
Sam Believ (44:58.717)
you
Kyle Buller (44:59.082)
trying to bring it more to the surface.
Kyle Buller (45:10.25)
and really maybe following the process. Maybe that part of your body wants to move. Maybe it wants to make a sound. Maybe your hand there, maybe it wants a little kind of extra massage. I’m noticing the energy is moving as I give myself that gentle massage and yeah, I really have some emotion coming up and I want to explore that.
Sam Believ (45:36.957)
you
Kyle Buller (45:38.154)
And you can slow your breath down. You can continue with the breathing if that feels comfortable, really kind of tuning into your body. What does it need?
Kyle Buller (45:58.358)
So then we’re going to shift gears a little bit. So I’m going to invite you if you are continuing with the deeper fuller breaths to slow it down.
Kyle Buller (46:16.618)
So inviting you to take those slow, long, deep inhales, kind of like what we were doing at the beginning.
Kyle Buller (46:32.33)
And again, really kind of bringing the breath into that part of your body.
Kyle Buller (46:46.122)
you
Kyle Buller (46:56.266)
it feel like to relax that area of your body? Maybe you notice there’s a little bit more tension there.
Does it feel like to consciously relax that area with the slower long deep inhales and exhales?
Sam Believ (47:33.533)
you
Kyle Buller (47:49.642)
taking a moment to notice how those deeper faster fuller breaths that more activating breath was feeling in the
versus the slower, longer, deeper inhales and exhales are regulating the body.
Kyle Buller (48:13.642)
those fuller faster inhales really kind of start to activate our parasympathetic nervous system, which can sometimes be related to that fight or flight, right? It’s like really getting energy, it’s activating us versus the slower longer inhales and exhales, really kind of operating on that parasympathetic, what we call that rest and digest.
Kyle Buller (48:51.08)
And so being able to experiment and really explore how breath affects us can be actually really helpful within medicine sessions, within our own kind of breathwork sessions that we’re doing these longer kind of intensified breathing to help us stay with emotion and express emotion. So maybe we notice this feeling coming up that maybe we want to avoid.
Or does it feel like to breathe a little bit deeper and faster into that area to activate it? And then maybe it’s getting too much and then we can slow it down. And so being able to be curious around how breath is helping to modulate our system as material is surfacing, that can be really, really helpful.
Sam Believ (49:25.839)
you
Kyle Buller (49:42.218)
So I just invite everybody will close out with another deep three deep breaths. So when you feel ready, another big deep inhale.
exhaling and again if you want to make a sound or a sigh on the exhale you can do so.
Another big deep inhale when you feel ready. Way down to the belly. Exhaling.
Kyle Buller (50:13.386)
One more big deep inhale.
Kyle Buller (50:23.466)
And then if you wanna just slowly start to come back, do some stretching, some movement.
Sam Believ (50:34.493)
It was really nice.
Sam Believ (50:39.357)
really nice because you kind of go through the whole cycle speeding up and then quieting down. I some tension in my neck and feel it’s less tense now so hope you guys enjoyed that as well I mean I didn’t expect it was almost a complete session what more than 10 minutes thank you so much
Kyle Buller (50:47.978)
Yeah, there’s so many different techniques. Some people do what’s called box breathing, which is like four in, hold for four, or you could do five, six, whatever feels comfortable, and then exhaling, but you’re keeping it pretty equal. Sometimes people do, I think it’s like a seven, eight, five breath, so like seven in, exhale for eight, hold for eight.
five and then all over again. Then you have stuff like Wim Hof breathing, which is like these cycles of the intensified breathing. I think it’s like for 30 or I forget, I haven’t studied Wim Hof too much. But that’s like a breaths and then hold. So you have like, yeah, you have that breath retention and then the exhale.
Sam Believ (51:31.933)
I think it’s 30 to 40 breaths. Similar to temple. So that Wim Hof breathing, for example, I could never meditate. Like I would suck at meditation. You know, the guided ones would be easy because you can just focus on them. But when there’s nothing to focus and you need to let your mind be empty, I think it’s mindfulness meditation. I would really struggle. However, I noticed when I would do…
one set of wimho breaths because it’s normally three sets of 30 and then the retaining of the breath I could meditate so much easier I don’t know what’s the mechanism of it maybe maybe you can understand but since then here at the retreat before every ceremony we do this breath work a couple sets of that and then guided meditation to put people in that state so can can you maybe talk to us a little bit about how
Kyle Buller (52:08.264)
Hmm.
Sam Believ (52:29.423)
psychedelic work and also how can psychedelic work help with breath work?
Kyle Buller (52:29.594)
Yeah, so like as I was mentioning, just then, like the way there’s this common question that I always get is, you know, can you do psychedelics and do breath work at the same time? And my answer is, yeah, you probably can, but it’s not going to be the same technique. So the way it
I’ve really integrated breath work into my psychedelic journeys. It’s really about nervous system regulation for me. So in the breath work tradition I come from, that deep intensified breathing is the thing that’s getting you activated. My analogy is like, it’s a bird, you’re getting into this kind of non -ordinary state, and then you’re using the breath to kind of modulate your experience or to navigate it a little bit. With psychedelics, you don’t need to do that intensified.
breathing, you know, the psychedelic is the vehicle that gets you there. So when you find yourself in those states, how could you use like a technique like that, that we just kind of did and be open to exploration. So say if we’re in the depths of, well, I’ll give you an actual example from an Ayahuasca experience that I had. So I was at a retreat and it was the last ceremony and I was,
reliving my near death experience. I found myself back in the cat scan machine, I was physically shaking and cold. And I was kind of watching myself die. Usually, my nervous system will kind of get in this fight or flight response of, oh, shit, I need to get out of here. Like I’m dying. I, you know, I have a hard time maybe like sticking with the process, you know, this fear and paranoia.
Kyle Buller (54:18.57)
really kind of integrating all my years of breath work and somatic work is, okay, this fear is coming up. I’m actually watching myself go through this. How do I express what’s going on? So I allowed myself to just physically shake. I was actually, you know, allowing myself to feel that cold. We talk about this concept of double bookkeeping. You know you’re on the mat. You know you’re like in the session.
you’re also somewhere else. Maybe you’re again, you’re reliving this near death experience that I’m going through. So using the breath to keep the psyche and the body engaged. I talked about this concept of like, when that typically happens, it’s all coupled, right, you have a trauma, and this kind of psychic narrative and the body, it’s all coupled together. And that really gets activated in psychedelic work. And sometimes people have a really hard time.
really kind of navigating that because it is super coupled together. And so it’s like, I’m dying. I need to get out of here, right? Like my nervous system is getting activated. This is actually happening. I need to get up and go to the bathroom or distract myself. So I don’t have to confront that. So I think what breath work helps us do is almost uncouple what’s going on there. We’re paying attention to the body. I’m noticing I’m actually activated. So how can I do maybe a slower, deeper breath?
and just regulate my nervous system. And then also let that I call it like that psychic narrative unfold. I’m actually watching myself die and letting that narrative and that vision unfold while I’m breathing and staying with my body. And so that would be an example of like, say, I need to use a calming breath because my nervous system is like, it’s kind of getting outside what we call in somatics, like the window of tolerance.
It’s starting to get outside of that window of tolerance. I need to slow my breath down. I need to focus on the experience that’s going on, focus where it is on my body and take a couple deep breaths into that to help me kind of regulate my system. There’s other times when emotions can really come up that we want to amplify it, right? Sometimes that could be with like anger, for example, like there’s a frustration. There’s frustration in my body. I’m going to start breathing into it pretty heavily.
Kyle Buller (56:39.016)
I’m noticing that that frustration is anger. And you know, obviously, this is very context dependent. Maybe you can’t scream at retreats. We really kind of encourage this stuff in breathwork just because that container can hold it a little bit more. But how can I maybe amplify that feeling of frustration in the body? Or another example, and maybe you’ve seen this quite often. The frustration is tied to nothing is happening. So somebody is in a session, nothing’s happening, they’re agitated.
They’re like frustrated. So what would it be like to really close your eyes, tune into that, find that frustration in your body? I’m noticing I’m not getting any visuals. I notice like, you know, nothing’s happening.
Kyle Buller (57:25.386)
take a couple deep breaths, how do we activate that frustration some more and really tap into those emotions, right? There’s that concept or saying, you really got to feel it to heal it. So most of the time we’re thinking about that frustration as more of a cognitive thing. I’m frustrated, this is boring, nothing’s happening versus I’m frustrated and I really need to express this frustration. I need to embody this emotion and that deeper, that deeper, faster breathing can really help to activate that a little bit more.
And so that’s an example of like how I would use that in sessions to actually go deeper into my sessions where I can regulate my body. If I’m hitting fight or flight, I need to get out of here. Or, you know, another way to use activating breath is if somebody’s shutting down and they’re kind of going into a little bit of that freeze state, right? Maybe like that fear panic comes in and we need to get that breath going, right? We notice the breath is starting to…
We’re starting to, and that’s another thing to pay attention to, body posture. Am I curling up right now? Right? And if you’re watching on video, I mean, you could do this right now. Just notice how your posture is, and maybe you’re hunched over. You know, a lot of us are like sitting at desks all day staring at computers and we’re hunched over. What does it feel like to drop the shoulders back and open up the chest and take some deeper breaths? And just notice like how that affects you. Like,
Hunching over and breathing versus shoulders back, breathing.
Kyle Buller (59:05.77)
you know, when my shoulders are back and my chest is open, I actually feel a little bit more grounded. So that’s another thing to pay attention to is body posture and how that affects our breathing and our affect as well.
Sam Believ (59:11.901)
Yeah Yeah, what you’re what you’re describing, you know what you feel people feel sometimes in a ceremony that frustration of not connecting yet we we have to deal with it a lot because people People expect ayahuasca being like other psychedelics where you take it and it kind of gets you there and there is no
is no in between but ayahuasca tends to be very selective and especially in the first few ceremonies it’s very mild it’s almost like you need you have the set and you have setting but there’s another one which is skill my chief facilitator Mark likes to use this method it’s like the third ass is a skill where you need to learn how to get connected and I believe what you’re describing and with this breath work it’s it’s a part of that skill because you can
Kyle Buller (01:00:04.91)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (01:00:11.645)
you like, you know, you can be in the car and sort of drive in the passenger seat. And what you’re describing is like with the breath work and with that knowledge that hopefully people are getting from listening to this podcast and other episodes here is going to teach them how to be more skillful. And then the results with their psychedelic work can be better. And that’s, that’s very important, you know, trying to, um,
people come you know from different countries they come here and we want them to get the most out of it because obviously you spending time and money on doing that and then it’s interesting that you describe people running away from their experience trying to like walk walk or go to the bathroom that happens a lot as well when uh… i i describe it as like you know your ego doesn’t want to go away and it’s uh… i was just trying to dissolve it and then starts fighting back and it
Kyle Buller (01:00:54.026)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Sam Believ (01:01:04.605)
you cannot run away from yourself. And then normally what happens when we notice a doing that, we try to calm them down because…
forces it and there’s an explosion in the form of like you know somebody just going through a really really really rough one you described you know you’re you’re living you your situation is in a scanner and feeling the coldness so obviously there was some trauma there stored in your body and I know you talk about the this mechanism of trauma being stored in your body.
Kyle Buller (01:01:16.36)
Yeah.
Kyle Buller (01:01:20.554)
you
Kyle Buller (01:01:34.474)
Mm -hmm.
Sam Believ (01:01:43.119)
So how can you know, how can people release that with with breath work?
Kyle Buller (01:01:49.802)
Yeah, I think that was the one thing that made me stick with breath work. So in my early years, when I was working with psychedelics, I felt like I was doing a lot of like cognitive processing and intellectualizing. And I would even say a little bit of like spiritual bypassing. If I can just keep going back into these realms, maybe I’ll be able to like figure things out, right? And so I was chasing after an experience. It wasn’t until I started to…
Sam Believ (01:02:13.565)
you
Kyle Buller (01:02:18.57)
do breath work and start going to these workshops and get training in it, that I started to realize I was actually not dealing with my emotions in a way, right? Like I was using psychedelics as a way to escape in a sense of like, I’m going home, I get to relive this really awesome intense experience all the time.
But it wasn’t, yeah, until I started to do breath work that I was like, oh my God, like I haven’t been processing any of this trauma in my body. And so at least our modality really allows folks to express that. And that can be really scary for expression. I know in group psychedelic work, it’s a little bit harder to have expression because we’re a little bit more in these vulnerable open states and it can really trigger people in a different way. It seems like in the breath work experience,
Sam Believ (01:02:54.877)
you
Sam Believ (01:03:00.641)
you
Kyle Buller (01:03:10.526)
people are able to tolerate catharsis in a little bit different of a way. And so, you know, an example is like that frustration. It’s like, okay, like in a breath work session, I can breathe, breathe and I can pound my pillow, you know, nobody’s gonna stop me from doing that. And I’m actually getting it out of my system, you know, and I learned how to, I guess really stick.
with sensations in my body. And so when we’re talking about say physical trauma, for example, I noticed this pain and I’m allowing myself to feel that and maybe it starts with shaking, right? So that’s a way the nervous system discharges trauma is shaking, but shaking is also scary for a lot of folks. Cause what if I start shaking and it gets out of control and I can’t control it, right? So also really kind of trusting the intuition of the body.
Sam Believ (01:03:40.189)
you
Sam Believ (01:04:07.107)
you
Kyle Buller (01:04:07.754)
And so for that example that I gave of being in the CAT scan machine back in the Zayawaska experience, I knew I couldn’t really verbally express stuff or have big physical catharsis, but I could do these little things of sticking with my somatic sensations by breathing, but then I also allowed myself to shake and shiver. And so I was sitting there on the mat curled up going, like actually,
feeling what I was feeling like in the CAT scan machine. And that’s a way that the body releases trauma and like that stored energy in the body. But sometimes it can be really kind of like frightening if you aren’t prepared for that or haven’t done any of that work before. You know, what if your leg just all of a sudden wants to shake and convulse, right? Sometimes you’re like, am I having a seizure? Like what’s going on here? But a lot of say the neuroscience or the somatic,
psychology, you know, they looked at like Peter Levine and a few of those other pioneers like looked at like animals, for example, when an animal goes through a really traumatic experience, they go off and they shake, right, they shake their nervous system off. And then they go back at it with whatever they’re doing. Humans, we don’t do that, you know, we got this thing that makes us think and intellectualize. And so we tend to will sit there and ruminate about an experience, what just happened.
Sam Believ (01:05:11.023)
you
Kyle Buller (01:05:36.714)
God, we’re trying to cognitively process. So allowing your body to express it is really important. But also, it’s important to do that in a safe container and within your window of tolerance, because sometimes people can overdo it, they’re not ready for it, their nervous system, you know, it’s a little too much for their nervous system. So we also got to think about safety when it comes to that. But that’s where breath work and doing some of this stuff in preparation can be really important.
Sam Believ (01:05:45.213)
you
Sam Believ (01:06:02.813)
you
Kyle Buller (01:06:06.602)
So they’re starting to practice some of these skills. And I appreciate your metaphor there about like, maybe we’re typically in the passenger seat and not the driver’s seat. And I think by having resources like this, it puts us a little bit more in the passenger seat or in the driver’s seat. And it gets us to engage in the process a little bit more than just being completely passive in it.
Sam Believ (01:06:31.005)
Yeah that shaking, shaking study that you mentioned, I have heard about it on a podcast somewhere and now whenever I drive and I get into like a situation where it’s like, you know, you get startled because something might have happened, I consciously shake it off.
I don’t know if it helps or not, but I’ve kind of made it a habit.
Kyle Buller (01:06:57.066)
Peter Levine, yeah, I’ll just make a quick little story. But Peter Levine who develops somatic experiencing, he shares in one of his books, The Waking Tiger, something like that, I always forget the title of it. He got hit by a car and he’s talking about the presence of somebody. So the first person that came over was like, oh my God, are you okay? Like really overwhelming him in a sense. And then he had to tell the person to back off and then a doctor came over with a much more kind of calming presence, didn’t ask a bunch of questions.
Sam Believ (01:07:04.541)
you
Kyle Buller (01:07:26.282)
So he was able to regulate, but he shared the story when he got in the ambulance, he was allowing himself to shake and shake the trauma off. And the EMTs were like, what are you doing? He’s like, I’m trying not to get PTSD. I’m trying to let my body process this stuff versus just thinking about it. So yeah, it can be really important.
Sam Believ (01:07:47.677)
So shake it off guys if you get into a situation like this. Kyle, we’ve been going for more than an hour and honestly I still have enough questions for one more episode. So maybe we can do another one maybe in presence next time. So it’s been very interesting.
Kyle Buller (01:07:50.602)
Yeah.
Kyle Buller (01:07:59.134)
Cool, that’d be fun.
Kyle Buller (01:08:04.938)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (01:08:13.821)
about you and learn more about, you know, maybe get your breath work course. I know you also train people to be facilitators, right? And…
Kyle Buller (01:08:23.446)
Yeah, we’re trying to change a little bit of the language as regulations are starting to come online here in the States. So yeah, you can find me, I have a person, like you can find me personally on like Instagram or my own website, Setting Sun Wellness, settingsunwellness .com or Setting Sun Wellness on Instagram. Or you can follow us at Psychedelics today. That’s where most of my work is nowadays and where I spend probably the most time.
Sam Believ (01:08:35.933)
you
Kyle Buller (01:08:49.61)
Um, and yeah, Sam, as you’re pointing to, it’s like training. So yeah, we have a 12 month training program called vital. Uh, it’s in psychedelic harm reduction integration and psychedelic informed practice. So really trying to train people on the importance of preparation in like different types of interventions, somatics, we have breath work retreats that we offer. Um, and so people could find that at vitalpsychedelictraining .com or you can find it at psychedelics today and really psychedelics today anywhere.
Sam, this has been fun. I really appreciate it. And this has been a really, really fun podcast for me.
Sam Believ (01:09:23.773)
Yeah, it was fun for me as well. Kyle, thank you so much for coming. Thank you for teaching us Bread Fork. And yeah, we’ll have to do another one because there’s, I still have much and it’s a compliment because I sometimes run out of questions quickly. So thank you, Kyle.
Kyle Buller (01:09:32.628)
Oh, thank you. I feel that. Thank you so much.